Godless Pastor
Welcome to Godless Pastor, a podcast dedicated to guiding those who feel lost in their walk with the church and the state back to a place of hope and purpose. Hosted by Billy Crocker, a former fundamentalist minister turned atheist then finding his walk of faith, this podcast provides a safe haven for individuals navigating the complexities of faith.
In Godless Pastor, we delve into the gray areas of spirituality, offering insights and perspectives on navigating them with grace and understanding. Our discussions center around embracing a "lead with love" attitude, emphasizing compassion, empathy, and acceptance as guiding principles on the spiritual journey.
Whether you're questioning your beliefs, your politics, struggling with doubt, or seeking a path forward in your relationship with God, Godless Pastor is here to offer encouragement, support, and inspiration. Join us as we discover the power of finding hope amid doubt.
Godless Pastor
From Labels to Humanity
The political landscape of 2016 was a rollercoaster that left many of us disillusioned and divided. In the second chapter, I recount my internal battle during Donald Trump's candidacy, voting out of fear rather than conviction, and the frustration with the lack of meaningful political discourse. Reflecting on the loss of civility, I long for the days of respectful disagreements, as exemplified by leaders like John McCain. Through this narrative, we delve into the necessity of engaging in constructive conflict and the unfortunate trend of tuning out opposing viewpoints for personal peace. Join me as we navigate these challenging themes, seeking hope and understanding amidst the chaos.
Welcome to the Godless Pastor. I'm your host, billy Crocker. A podcast dedicated to guiding those who feel lost in their walk with the church and the state back to a place of hope and purpose. Whether you're questioning your beliefs, your politics, struggling with doubt or seeking a path forward in your relationship with God, godless Pastor is here to offer encouragement, support and inspiration. Join us as we discover the power of finding hope amidst doubt. Well, welcome to the Godless Pastor podcast. I'm your host, billy Crocker, and this is our second episode. I just want to take a minute, so there's. So.
Speaker 1:I'm a big fan, as my wife is too. We really, really like Mr Rogers, we like Daniel Tiger for the kids, and we like some of the things about Mr Rogers. Ironically, mr Rogers, as you may know, is a Christian, a minister and all that, and so don't necessarily agree with everything that he you know believes about faith or Christianity, but I do think that he has a lot of good, positive messages, and so I just want to start with this quote from him. He said I've often hesitated in beginning a project because I've thought it'll never turn out to be even remotely like the good idea I have. As I start, I could just feel how good it could be, but I decided that for the present, I would create the best way. I know how and accept the ambiguities.
Speaker 1:Something that I have always believed about people, both when I was a Christian and now, is that behind our labels, behind what we, the walls that we put up about ourselves, we kind of hide behind I'm a Christian, I'm an American, I'm a Democrat, I'm a Republican. We put these labels up and we say this identifies me as a person, and those labels are really what becomes controversial, it's what becomes divisive, it's what separates us from others, and I also feel like it dehumanizes us. I think that it keeps us from being able to see the other side. I think that we become kind of we basically we have allegiance to that label, and what's really interesting and ironic about that is, as a fundamentalist Christian, I felt that way and I think a big part of the messaging that I'm trying to get across to my former fellow Christians, fellow fundamentalist Christians, is that a big reason that I you know, I can only speak for myself, so I don't want to imply this on you.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's not your position, maybe that's not where you're at, but a big reason that I held so strongly onto my beliefs was because of fear. It was because I didn't want to let go. I looked at it. I think the image that I had in my head was like a knitted sweater and that if I started to pull on a thread then the whole thing would become unraveled. Then the whole thing would become unraveled and I remember genuinely feeling scared because that was my whole identity. That label a Christian minister, the preacher man was my identity. It influenced my circle, the friends that I had, from everything to you know, from online on social media to the you know, the friends that I had on there to friends that I had in real life, people that I would have coffee with and have lunch with and invite over to our house for dinner, and you know, it was everything and it helped that. My own family was also largely a part of that also, and so it was terrifying to step out from that label.
Speaker 1:The nice thing about labels is that it helps you to identify with the person next to you. If you say I am a Democrat, and you're in the shopping center and you're at the grocery store and you see somebody with a Democrat shirt on, maybe a Biden campaign shirt or something like that, you're able to go. Oh look, there's somebody I identify with. I'm a Democrat. Look at them wearing that shirt in the grocery store. They've got to be a Democrat. Oh, I feel comfortable, I feel at ease. I don't even know this person's name, I've never met this person before in my life, but I can identify with them, I can relate to them because of what they think and what they believe, and so I think that for me, what happened, where everything started to get confusing label, I started to tug at that thread, and I think the thing that is so unfortunate and the thing that is so sad is that I had this idea, I had this concept that if I started pulling at that thread and if it completely unraveled and there was no longer a sweater there, that the threads were just disappearing into thin air, that there would be no identity left, that there would be nothing there remaining once it was all gone. But the reality has turned into something entirely different and I feel like that now, where I'm at in life and in my spiritual walk and my political beliefs and you may disagree with me, and that's fine, but I do feel like that I have woven a sweater back together that instead of it being just one color, it's many colors, it's many colors. It's a ton of different thought processes and beliefs and opinions and and you know sources and and I don't know what happens.
Speaker 1:I don't, I, I don't understand how, all the time, how I get pulled in to myself, you know, posting or portraying a certain position, I, if I'm being honest and transparent, I find I look back at some of the things that I posted this week and I think I feel sad. I feel sad that it causes controversy, that it causes divisiveness, and I want to be able to just share my thoughts. I want to be able to just share how I feel about something. But, man, people feel very strongly about these positions. I certainly find myself feeling really strongly about these positions, and so I get it. But I think that what I want to be able to convey today is that when we put those labels up, we dehumanize ourselves and we dehumanize others. We miss the boat. We miss the boat, we miss the point of humanity, we miss the point of our neighbors, we miss the point of each other, we miss the point of community.
Speaker 1:And I think the thing that I find so sad about the state of politics today, the state of faith today is that we're so angry with each other today. The state of faith today is that we're so angry with each other and the thing is is like and so the position that I know that a lot of people have taken and I see that on my feed on Facebook and other social media platforms the position that a lot of people have taken is I'm going to check out, like you know, leave me out of this conversation. I don't want to have anything to do with this political conversation or this faith-based conversation. Leave me out. So we unfollow, we delete, we block, we unfriend, and that's so unfortunate because I think if we just drop the labels, we could really get somewhere, and so I'm not perfect at this.
Speaker 1:It's so easy to say you know, here's a label. It's so easy to do that. And whenever I was unraveling, when I was pulling this thread in 2016, 2017, until it was no longer there, thread in 2016, 2017, until it was no longer there, I remember thinking like grasping at those last threads as I tugged on them, thinking surely something of this original sweater I can, I can hold on to, but, but what I found was that humanity is more important than one color of sweater, than having an identity as an individual label, and I want to challenge people that put themselves in the bucket of Christian or atheist or Democrat or Republican. I'm challenging myself here as a Democrat Try, try, try, try. We have to try to not bring those labels to the table, to the conversation, to the community.
Speaker 1:I think the most important label that we need to have with each other is neighbor, is community. I think it's the most important label that we need to have and that neighbor needs to extend not just to those next door to us, not to just those in the same political influence as us, not just to those in the same faith-based system as us, not just those in the same nationality as us, but humanity, all of us across the globe. No matter where you're from, what you've done in your life, it doesn't matter. You're a human being. No matter what you believe about faith or politics, you're a human being, you're my neighbor and we have definitely lost that. We have lost it and I really, really hope that we can find it. And you know, the confusing thing is that.
Speaker 1:So the path that I initially took was like I basically went from one black and white to another black and white. So I had the black and white of fundamentalist Christianity. And then, in the middle of that was the 2016 election cycle and Donald Trump, and I remember being really frustrated. Now, in transparency, I voted for Donald Trump. I was still trying to hang on to those threads and I thought I can't let go of this, I can't let go of conservatism, I can't let go of being a Republican, and at that time, I still was hanging on to some few threads that I still had left of my Christian faith, and so I thought I can't let go of these labels, I can't let go of where I'm at, go of these labels, I can't let go of where I'm at. And I was living in East Texas at the time and no one that I knew was going to vote for Hillary Clinton Nobody, and everybody was like you have to vote for Donald Trump to save our country, to save the unborn, to save Christianity, to save our faith, to save our nation, and I believed it. I believed it and so I voted for Donald Trump, and I know that, like now, both sides are claiming that.
Speaker 1:Say that, because, for people that are of one side of the view, they're going to turn me off if I say that, which is really sad. It's really sad that we won't just listen to a different point of view, but we turn the other person off and I get it. It's like it has to do with our own peace, right? We're like well, I need peace in my life and this is divisive and it's controversial and I don't agree with it and it's making me frustrated and stressed and upset and so I don't want to be a part of it. But there is an opportunity in debate. There's an opportunity in conflict. That's a marriage principle, that's a relationship principle. There is an opportunity in conflict and I keep avoiding talking about Donald Trump in depth because I don't want to piss anybody off.
Speaker 1:I don't want to make anybody upset, but his comments in the 2016 election I was floored the grab him by the pussy comment. That just shocked me as a conservative Christian and I thought this man is done for. There's no way that Christians are going to vote for him. There's no way that Christian men are going to vote for him. There's no way that Christian women are going to vote for him and, of course, I ended up voting for him in 2016.
Speaker 1:But I did not support him. It was a Republican versus Democrat ticket for me, right. So it was not that I liked Donald Trump. That's not why I voted for him. It's a Republican versus Democrat ticket for me. So it was not that I liked Donald Trump. That's not why I voted for him. It's because I thought that Hillary Clinton was going to be a danger to our country. So I voted Republican, but I didn't care for Donald Trump.
Speaker 1:But I saw a lot of Christian men and Christian women adore Donald Trump throughout the election cycle and still do, and I did not understand that level of adoration for an individual, a person and I understand that people make mistakes and all that, but Donald Trump never really even claimed that he made a mistake in saying those comments. Billy Bush, the Hollywood access reporter that was on the film with Donald Trump and laughed at Donald Trump's comments, he did say that he was sorry for the way that he reacted. He did say that he was apologetic, that he laughed and that he did not speak up and that he did feel really ashamed of himself. Donald Trump never said that and it was passed off as locker room talk and then it was just dismissed. And obviously there's been a lot of other comments since then and I understand that the Democrats have made horrid comments.
Speaker 1:I know that. I know that people that claim to be Republican or claim to be Democrat or liberal or progressive or conservative I know that everybody on all sides have made some really horrible comments. I understand that Uncle Joe not the president, it was just the name that came to mind and I know that's like a derogatory nickname for him but Uncle Joe as just a random person posting on Facebook conservative or liberal, progressive I understand they may have made really horrible comments and they are either, you know, voting Democrat or they're voting Republican, and that's your evidence and your source to be like. You know, everybody says nasty things, but what I could not believe was that the Democrat or the Republican nominee for president was saying these things. Nominee for president was saying these things.
Speaker 1:I miss and missed the days of a John McCain presidency where he would take the microphone out of someone's hands who was, you know, just denigrating Barack Obama former President Obama at that time and saying really horrible things about him. And John McCain taking that microphone and saying you know, this is a decent human being, this is a fellow American. You know that I simply have disagreements with on policy issues. Those days are gone for some reason. I'm so sad that those days are gone, and so I do find myself frustrated.
Speaker 1:I find myself frustrated with Republicans. I do find myself frustrated with Democrats as well. I find myself frustrated with Christians. I find myself frustrated with atheists, because we're doing a lot of finger-pointing and we're doing a lot of hate-filled talk and, yes, and I think what happens to the liberal side is they're like no, no, no, no, we're not doing that kind of hate-filled talk that the Republicans are doing. Well, I just don't know how important that point is to the conservative, because the conservative doesn't see it that way. So I can't argue that point because they just don't see it that way. Even if I do, even if I agree with you, they just don't see it that way. And if I try to push that point, then they are going to turn me off. And the sad thing is that you, as the liberal or progressive that may be listening, you are likely to turn me off just because I won't say that the Republicans are saying worse things than the Democrats. That pisses off certain progressives and liberals. Republicans are saying worse things than the Democrats. That pisses off certain progressives and liberals, and I guess at that point it's just like, well, I suppose you're not my audience then. I suppose that's not who I'm trying to reach, because I want to find people that are willing to hear both sides, willing to understand and believe still in the humanity of people, and I believe that we can get there, and I believe that we can find it. And so you know, this episode has gone the way that it has.
Speaker 1:I wanted to just pour my heart out to you to say that like we've got to find a better way. But I think that a big thing is the labels, and so we gotta find a way to do this different. We've got to find a way to do a better job at seeing people as people and dropping the labels, and sometimes we do a disservice to ourselves in that in that way, because we willingly put the labels on us. But but that puts a lens over you and when you see other people with their labels, you put a lens in how you're looking at them. We're human beings. We have to see each other as our neighbors. We have to start believing in goodness and positive things, because there's a lot of negative. Because there's a lot of negative. There's a lot of hate. So we've got to find our way through this, and what I kind of want to end with is I want to tell you a story of my own experience within my own family.
Speaker 1:My dad and I are of opposite political ideologies and during the COVID vaccine time when the COVID vaccine came out, my dad and I got pretty upset with each other. My dad is over 65 years old and I was really worried about him getting COVID. No-transcript have differences in beliefs. We have differences in viewpoints and there's things that I don't care for and you know about the way that he thinks about things. But he's my dad and he was a good dad to me in a lot of ways, and so it was really sad. It was a sad time because the reason that I wanted my dad to get the vaccine was because I didn't want him to die from COVID.
Speaker 1:Now he ended up getting COVID and he did not die and he did not want me to get the vaccine either. Or you know, he had the opposite view. You know I wanted him to get the vaccine and he did not want me to get the vaccine because everything that his media, that his circle, was telling him was that, getting the vaccine, I'm going to die because I'm getting the vaccine, and he was upset with me for doing that. He was upset with me for getting the vaccine, and he was upset with me for doing that. He was upset with me for getting the vaccine, I was upset with him for not getting the vaccine, and we didn't talk for a little while because of that. But then we did pick back up the conversation several months after all of that had happened, when the vaccine was available and we were upset with each other for our respective choices. And I remember asking him you know, dad, can I just, can I just ask you know, why did you not want me to get the vaccine? And that's when he told me because I was worried that you would die. And I said well, dad, the reason that I was upset that you weren't getting the vaccine was because I was worried that you would die. And it was a light bulb moment because I remember just thinking like okay, wow, like fear is a constant base factor in our anger.
Speaker 1:When we're afraid of something happening as a result of whatever we're talking, whatever the topic is, we get upset as grownups, especially as kids, right, but definitely I mean my kids do all the time right. So as grownups, especially as kids right, but definitely I mean you know my kids do all the time right. So as grownups, we get upset, we get frustrated when we're afraid of something, and so that makes complete sense. And so I think that, if I can just speak to your heart this morning, I think that a big reason that you get so mad I will at least speak for myself and say a big reason I get so mad about these things is because I'm afraid country of what will happen to people that I love, even people that I disagree with, if we continue down the road that we're on. And I think that you are also afraid of what will happen to this country, even if you disagree with me on how we get to that point where things are not good.
Speaker 1:We may have a completely different view of that, but it is also based on fear. But it is also based on fear. And you know, the interesting thing about that is we are afraid on behalf of our neighbors, because we love our neighbors and we think that we have the right answer. We think that we know how to positively impact their lives based on our ideologies, our beliefs, our political views. We think we know what's best for them and if they agree with us then we can shake hands and be friends, and if they don't agree with us then we're not as open-minded about that.
Speaker 1:But I think that at the core it's based on fear. And just like that situation with my dad and we talk now and we have a good relationship overall he doesn't always agree with everything that I say and I don't always agree with him, but we've come to an understanding on those kinds of things that like, okay, we get it. Like it's based on fear and the reason why we'd be afraid, why, where would that fear come from? Because we love each other, because we love each other and so this assumption that it's all about hate I think if you, if you were to to find the thread that the, the hate would go from hate. If you're going backwards, it would go from hate to fear is the reason why you're feeling that hatred and that frustration and that anger. And then the fear is stemming from love for your fellow person. I believe it boils down to love and we're just not doing a great job of showing it. We're not doing a great job of communicating that love, that grace, that mercy to each other that we all want for ourselves. And so my hope for us is that we can find a middle ground, that we can find a place where we drop the labels and we can find a place of love and grace and mercy and forgiveness for one another, because we all need to look at each other and we need to love each other as we are. To quote Mr Rogers again, I like you just the way you are. We all need to hear that message.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for listening today and I hope that you'll continue to listen. You can find us on godlesspastorbuzzsproutcom. You can both support our show there financially. You also can find the different platforms that we're on that you can listen to us. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcast, I would love it if you would subscribe and leave us a review. That helps us out. So thank you so much again. I appreciate you and I hope that you have a good week. All right, take care, thank you.
