Godless Pastor
Welcome to Godless Pastor, a podcast dedicated to guiding those who feel lost in their walk with the church and the state back to a place of hope and purpose. Hosted by Billy Crocker, a former fundamentalist minister turned atheist then finding his walk of faith, this podcast provides a safe haven for individuals navigating the complexities of faith.
In Godless Pastor, we delve into the gray areas of spirituality, offering insights and perspectives on navigating them with grace and understanding. Our discussions center around embracing a "lead with love" attitude, emphasizing compassion, empathy, and acceptance as guiding principles on the spiritual journey.
Whether you're questioning your beliefs, your politics, struggling with doubt, or seeking a path forward in your relationship with God, Godless Pastor is here to offer encouragement, support, and inspiration. Join us as we discover the power of finding hope amid doubt.
Godless Pastor
Redefining Manhood: Gender Stereotypes and Faith's Complexities
What if the very idea of "manhood" we've been taught for generations is deeply flawed? Join us on the Godless Pastor podcast as we dissect the recent uproar following Gus Walz's emotional support for his father, Tim Walz, at the Democratic National Convention. Right-wing commentators branded Gus a "beta male," igniting a fierce debate on gender stereotypes. Reflecting on my own upbringing in rural East Texas, I share the challenges men face when expressing emotions. We'll explore why it's essential to redefine manhood, moving beyond these outdated labels, and how such expressions impact our relationships and society.
But that's not all—Christianity's view on identity is just as complex. We delve into the contradictions within fundamentalist teachings that claim Jesus accepts everyone, yet impose rigid gender roles. We scrutinize how these exclusionary practices—reinforced by biblical inconsistencies like Deuteronomy 23:1—wound individuals and push them away from their faith. Wrapping up, we invite you, our listeners, to engage with us by submitting questions or topics for future episodes. Let's work together towards a more inclusive and compassionate understanding of faith and identity. Don't forget to subscribe and stay updated with the Godless Pastor podcast.
Welcome to the Godless Pastor. I'm your host, billy Crocker. A podcast dedicated to guiding those who feel lost in their walk with the church and the state back to a place of hope and purpose. Whether you're questioning your beliefs, your politics, struggling with doubt or seeking a path forward in your relationship with God, godless Pastor is here to offer encouragement, support and inspiration. Join us as we discover the power of finding hope amidst doubt. Well, hello and welcome to the Godless Pastor podcast.
Speaker 1:This week, I want to be able to talk to you about manhood. This is a topic that I actually was interested in talking about several weeks ago, and then we hit the Democratic National Convention this week and we had where Tim Walz, the vice presidential nominee for the Democrats, stood up and gave his acceptance speech, and his son, gus Walz, stood up during the speech, tears in his eyes, sobbing, saying you know, that is my dad, that's my dad. And you would have thought this would have just been a loving moment between a son and his father on the public stage and that it would have just been endearing and heartfelt and heartwarming, and, you know, like we all just could have rallied around that expression of emotion. Unfortunately for many, on the right. They decided to attack Gus Walls and Tim Walls Gus Walls for his expression of emotion and somehow trying to suggest that that was a criticism of Tim Walz's parenting, that he had raised a what the right and I hate this term, but just for context what the right is calling a beta male, and so obviously that terminology has to do with alpha and beta. It's a, you know, if you're familiar with that. Essentially it's just the concept is that there are leader males that are alpha males, that are in charge. This kind of goes back to, you know, the animal kingdom. There's an alpha male in a pack, a wolf pack, right, they fight for leadership positions within their pack and the one that wins that fight is the alpha male and the other males in the pack or beta males, and so this is kind of what's been brought into our realm.
Speaker 1:I do find it always interesting that a lot of times that argument is coming from Christian culture, from Christian nationalist culture, more specifically Christian fundamentalism. And the reason I find it interesting is because, really, the only way that you could kind of get around to even suggesting something like that is adopting some form of evolutionary belief that we adopted, you know, alpha and beta tendencies through the process of evolution and, of course, if you know much about Christian fundamentalism, they don't believe in that. They don't believe in the evolutionary process. So you know there is, as I said, you know this is a topic that I was already wanting to discuss, and so I think it was just really just kind of fate that all of this happened this week in the DNC and that I experienced on my social media news feed and elsewhere across the on public news feeds for celebrities and Ann Coulter is a name that comes to mind who is a conservative woman that talks, has a spot. I think she's got it on. She used to have it on Fox News, I don't know if she's still on there. Who is a conservative woman that talks has a spot. I think she's got it on. She used to have it on Fox News. I don't know if she's still on there, but anyway, she has a Twitter X account and so she had said some things that were pretty ridiculous towards Gus Walls and Tim Walls. Supposedly. She ended up deleting that tweet, saying that once she learned, and so apparently Gus Walls is nonverbal, is on the autism spectrum disorder or has autism spectrum disorder and and then also has other you know conditions as well. That, like again, makes him nonverbal, has trouble regulating his emotions due to that, apparently, and so that is Ann Coulter's kind of like response, like, okay, well, well, once I learned that, then I took this, this tweet, down. She never actually, to my knowledge, has apologized for, for making those comments, but she, you know her, her defenses. Well, I removed the tweet once I realized that he has a reason for that.
Speaker 1:Well, the issue here is is that there doesn't need to be a reason for a man to show emotion, and one of the most confusing things for me, as a straight heterosexual male growing up in the South, in rural East Texas, is that when you don't fit into the box of a man, it really is very confusing. It honestly would be easier if I had, you know, attraction towards, towards men, because that is almost the assumption, unfairly criticized and kind of, you know, talked down to because of being a more softer man, if you will, having emotion, having, you know, outward emotion, and that has led to some difficulty in communication with other men, especially manly men. But what you know what for me, what made that so confusing as a child, is because I did not understand. Well, so first of all so let's back up just a bit. So one I did understand from the Christian culture that I was in the Christian fundamentalist culture, that I was in that what was unacceptable would be being any sort of effeminate in nature as a man, like you're supposed to be a man right Now, what my parents did not do is that they did not try to tell me ever growing up that I needed to be a certain thing. You know, as a boy, as a man, I wasn't forced, and this is probably to the. You know. I'm sure my dad was actually probably not very happy with this. This is probably more my mom's pushing this than it was my dad. But to the extent you know, I played band when I was in high school.
Speaker 1:I did not play football. Football I like watching football, I enjoy the sport, but, um, it just is not for me to be physical in that way with with other people. And so, um, I played it in junior high. I was in sixth grade. I played football for one year. Um, funny enough, my entire class was not that good for the entire sixth grade year, for junior high, we made one touchdown the entire season. I was not a part of that touchdown.
Speaker 1:I was third string wide receiver and I think I played one play. I'm pretty sure I got a concussion on that play because I was, you know, asked to do a route and I went out and I was a scrawny, tiny kid and um, and so I do this route and the I swear we were playing the giants Um, cause this kid across from me was my recollection was just massive Um, and so I do, I go to do my route, and I think all he did was just hold his arms out. I ran into his arms and I fell backwards and I mean, I'm sure the site was something to say for everybody in the stands, but for me I just remember I do remember kind of blacking out. I fell backwards, hit my head and pretty hard I got up and went to the sidelines and once I realized that the play was over and got my bearings and that's the only time that I played that I can remember I was just in that one play and so I had to accept.
Speaker 1:You know, despite the fact that kind of societally there is this pressure to young boys and men that you are supposed to be a certain type, you're supposed to be a certain way, and if you're not that, then you're looked down upon or that you're somehow less than You're not good enough, and so that's such a confusing message from the Christian fundamentalist culture whenever they also demonize homosexuality, bisexual or, uh, non-binary or you know, they they don't, they do not tolerate, will not tolerate any form of um, you know of, of gender fluidity or any acceptance of a different way of looking at male and female. Nope, you know, the Bible says male and female. That's what there is. You cannot go against that. That's just. That's just the way it is. You got to accept that and any argument against that is an abomination to God, especially, again, with Christian fundamentalism as kind of the backdrop. If you were raised around that, or you experienced that, or even, you know, just honestly, probably if you were just raised in the South and maybe not necessarily were in church all the time or had the Christian fundamentalist backdrop, but just was raised in the South as a boy, as you know, as you were growing up, the culture around manhood in the South is just horrible. It is a it.
Speaker 1:You know the left has overused this phrase and I think it is a buzzword. A buzz phrase. Left kind of came out just roaring this this term toxic masculinity and the right really pushed back on it, essentially decided you know that their messaging was going to be that the left is trying to take away male culture, take away you know, manhood, take away, um, you know boys in general, gender in general, that you know that they're going to remove male and female. Male and female is going to be no more. You're, you're not allowed to be man, you're not allowed to be just a typical woman. The stereotypical things are not going to be allowed. You have to be fluid and we're not going to tolerate there being a stereotype or a specific way of being a man or a woman, and that is not what the left was saying. I think that some of the messaging did get confusing and I think there were some voices out there that were kind of oddly pushing that narrative Genuinely. I think it was misspoken. I think that it was miscommunication on the part of the left and some of the people that were saying that, because the topic around toxic masculinity was an important conversation and it still is.
Speaker 1:Toxic masculinity exists, not in the buzz phrase way that it was presented, but it definitely exists. And to me, speaking personally, what toxic masculinity is to me as a man is that I have to be a certain way or I'm not a man. What am I supposed to do with that information? Because I'm not that way, I'm not that type of man, I'm not the stereotypical man. So what am I supposed to do with that information? And so you leave a person in a really tough spot mentally and emotionally whenever you tell them that this is the way that you have to be and to try to. You know present that somehow there is an option. You know that you can be a different way, that if you're, you know that if you're not being the stereotypical man, then it's because you've listened to too many liberal policies, or it's because you've gone to college, or it's because you've moved away from your hometown. It's because you listened to too many voices.
Speaker 1:I was not a stereotypical boy. In rural East Texas, going to a Christian fundamentalist church, I didn't have any other voices. The only voices I had was that you're supposed to be a certain way as a boy and you're supposed to grow up to be a certain way as a man. That's the only voices I had. And yet I never fit that stereotypical boy or man, ever and again, and then the head scratcher is you know the accusation towards a boy that is like that or a man that is like that, is that, well, you must be gay and I'm not. So there's not. So it's just like what exactly do you want me to do with this information? I'm sorry, I'm not fitting any of your boxes. I'm not fitting any of your boxes. I'm not fitting any of your black and white stereotypes here. I am not that type of a man, sorry, and not being that type of man, guess what, I'm also not gay. So Help me out here, because what you're saying, your assumptions, don't make any sense. So what are we supposed to do with that information?
Speaker 1:And a lot of this, for Christian fundamentalism comes from the Old Testament, and so I want to talk about that a little bit today, and that is what you know. That was kind of where I came at the idea of gender and you know, and how to be is. That's where I got that information. So one of the things that is often brought up is the creation story in Genesis, chapter one, verse 27. It says that God created them, male and female, created him male and female. He created them, and that is oftentimes what is used as to say that. That is, then that's as gender goes. There are gender fluid, if you will species. There are species that can change genders. There are species that can change genders. There are species that do not have stereotypical gender roles, that you know, we're in there and their packs. They don't have an alpha male and a beta male and this sort of stuff. It is a lot more gray than the black and white way that we see it when we talk about a wolf pack or you know, or some other type of hyper masculine animal species that we're wanting to use to compare ourselves to.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, where I got to was to understand that, and this is again so where the messaging gets confusing is that from fundamentalist Christianity, despite how judgmental it can be and how you know black and white it can be, the oddity is that they still do present a message of that Jesus says come as you are, that you can come to the table of you know, christianity of Christ, of the church community as you are. There's no need to change anything about yourself before you come to Jesus Christ. You're able to just approach him as is, and that Christ accepts you as you are. And so for a lot of people, whether you're talking about not a stereotypical heterosexual male or female, or if you're talking about a gay man or a lesbian or bisexual, is that that is an inherent part of who they are. A transgender person, that is an inherent part of who they are. That is who God created them to be when they're supposed to come to the table as they are. That is who they are, and so we don't have to question whether or not that scripture in Genesis is accurate or not. We don't have to question whether or not God wrote that or not. We don't have to get into the weeds of well, why does this verse say this? We know for a fact that people real, living people and not just, and you know.
Speaker 1:And of course then the narrative goes to well, that's because of how far South society has gone, that's because of how, you know, satanic everything has become, how sexualized everything has become. No transgender people, gay and lesbian people, lgbtq people have existed for the entirety of the history of the world. They have always been here. None stereotypical male or female has always been here. We've always been present, and what I don't think that the message of Christianity would suggest is that you're supposed to tell that any of those identities, that they don't exist or that how they are, how God supposedly if you're going to hold to your beliefs that God created them, how exactly any of these categories are supposed to believe that somehow God made a mistake?
Speaker 1:And, of course, then the retaliatory response is God did not make a mistake. You're being sinful Again. That is just not people's lived reality. It is not. It is not people's lived reality, and people that are that are forcing others, who, who do not fit into these categories, to be ashamed of themselves or to push past those things and to try to fit into some stereotypical role, should be ashamed of themselves. It is absolutely horrible. The mental anguish that people are put through because they do not fit into these stereotypical roles is just, it's disgusting and it's it's just absolutely horrible. And so you know.
Speaker 1:The sad thing here is that this is the reason that a lot of people end up leaving their faith. Faith in general is important to a lot of people, and for some people they want to continue to believe in a God, but the God that you have presented to them is so against their identity, against who they are, and you're telling them that that is the only option. I mean again, just for me, still a heterosexual male, but not fitting into those stereotypical roles. I'm being told that it's not possible that God created me to be that way. God only created a stereotypical male. That's who he created. He created all alpha males. That's the only option, that's the only choice. And you're choosing to be a beta male and so you don't matter, you don't count, go frolic through the field of flowers. Well, that's just not the lived reality of people.
Speaker 1:But the sad outcome is people choosing to leave their faith that they otherwise would believe in, choosing to leave a belief in God that they otherwise would continue to believe in and lean on and is like well, the main thing that we're talking about for fundamentalist Christianity is a gay man or a lesbian, but we're also talking about, or transgender, but we're also talking about a non-stereotypical male. Talking about a non-stereotypical male, and obviously that's more personable to me and so that's the reason why I'm probably emphasizing it. But the other reason why I want to emphasize it is because, just like what's happened this week at the DNC and the response from the right about Gus Walls, is that it's kind of the unspoken judgment, the unspoken criticism is a non-stereotypical, heterosexual male. Because they receive I have received, I know men receive that do not fit the stereotype, receive a lot of backlash from the right, receive a lot of backlash from conservative, fundamentalist Christian men and pastors get up and preach it and fathers tell their sons that they don't matter or that they are less than if they don't fit into those roles. The harm that is done, the emotional harm that is done and sometimes the physical harm that is done because of that belief system that your boy needs to fit a stereotypical role, that your grown son needs to fit a stereotypical role and that you should be not proud of them, ashamed of them, not happy with them if they don't fit that role, is ridiculous. There are so many categories it seems like that a person can fit into, where they get kind of pushed out of the circle of community in the church. And to me the church deserves the outcome that has occurred, that people have left the church in droves. They deserve that. No surprise that that has happened, no surprise at all.
Speaker 1:You know, and I want to bring up, you know, a few other verses here and one of those is so in Deuteronomy 23.1, it says that it basically I won't read the verse. You should go look at it. Essentially it's talking about, I mean, what ultimately ended up becoming a eunuch, right? So it says I'll just read it no one whose testicles are crushed, whose penis is cut off, shall be admitted to the assembly of the Lord. Okay, so not the greatest verse.
Speaker 1:So the problem is that when you go to the New Testament, in Acts, the first Gentile, right nonbeliever that was converted to Christianity was a eunuch. That was the first one converted. So how do you answer for that? How do you explain that? I think that's pretty difficult to explain. That's in Acts, chapter 8, verses 26 through 39. It was an Ethiopian eunuch who first converted to Christianity.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, there are verses that tell you that you know in the Old Testament that this is not okay, and then there are verses in the New Testament that where it is more accepting and it is more loving, and so you know what I don't intend to get into today is those contradictions and as to whether or not that means that the Bible is not real or anything like that. That's neither here nor there, because who I'm wanting to reach right now are those that are Christian fundamentalists and those that have been put out of the church, put out of their faith, put out of their spiritual walk, because they've been told or they have believed themselves that a person is not, you know, able to be welcomed into the fold if they don't fit a stereotypical role. So that's just not accurate, that's not true based on, again, the lived reality of people. So what I hope to see happen here is that male culture can come along, whether that's Southern male culture, christian fundamentalist male culture, male culture in general, can come along to recognizing that they are doing more harm than good to the male culture, to manhood, by insisting that someone be in a box, that someone's expression of their gender be in a box. That is not if you read the entire Bible in context, how God created us. God supposedly also created us unique. God supposedly also created us with emotions, created us unique. God supposedly also created us with emotions, created us with humility, which is oftentimes not always considered a male stereotypical behavior.
Speaker 1:So I mean I think of the shortest verse in the Bible, that is Jesus wept. Jesus Christ showed emotion. Jesus was able to look at a group of people, a city of people, and weep for their souls. Jesus showed plenty of emotion. Jesus showed forgiveness. Jesus showed acceptance, I think, of the Samaritan woman at the well. Talking to her alone, just speaking to her, was out of custom for a Jewish man, right, and yet he did. He spoke to her. Not only did he speak to her, but he presented the gospel to her. He presented salvation to her. Up until the point of the New Testament, up until the point of Jesus, a Gentile, a non-Jew would not have ever been considered to be a part of God's kingdom.
Speaker 1:And then you had, as I said, the Ethiopian eunuch. You have the story of Saul converting to Christianity. Saul who was a Gentile crusader, marching through the streets and murdering people that were claiming to be Christian. I'm sorry, I might be having that incorrect. It's been so long since I've—he may have been Jewish, I might be having that incorrect. It's been so long since I've—he may have been Jewish. But the point is that he converted to Christianity on the road to Damascus, and he had that conversion experience after he had been one of the most violent offenders of dragging people through the streets and putting them in chains due to their belief in Jesus Christ. And then he met Jesus on the road to Damascus and he converted, and one of the things that came out of his experiences and that he came back and told his fellow followers was that Jesus had clearly said to him that Gentiles were also welcome into the kingdom of God, and that was a major development.
Speaker 1:So there is a lot of nuance in the Bible, and while fundamentalist Christians may not want to accept it, while Southern male culture may not want to accept it, there is even nuances in regards to gender. There is even nuances in regards to gender fluidity, and while, biologically, a lot of times we are, you know, most of the time we are born male or female, there are exceptions, there are people that do have, are born with both sexual organs, and you know there's an actual category and it happens. So you know. So it's not it's not 100% of the time, but it's pretty common. You know it's most of the time. Yes, we're born biologically male or female, true, but that is not the end of who we are, and so the right and conservative fundamentalist Christianity is trying to tell you that that is. That is exactly what that means. Depending on how you were born, your biological sex, that is who you are, and you have to fit the stereotypical role, and if you don't, then you are. You should be ashamed of yourself. That is harmful information, that is toxic messaging. That is toxic messaging. It is toxic masculinity. And so I hope that, as a society, we can move beyond, that, we can move past, that, we can get to new heights when it comes to understanding male culture, accepting male culture as a broader thing. Same goes for female culture.
Speaker 1:One of the things that always confused me as a kid was that dads, men, fathers were always willing to not just accept but applaud a tomboy girl, but would not accept the same thing on the other side. A dad could be proud of his daughter. If she was into hunting and fishing and men type things, gave her a name a tomboy. But if a boy was into arts, crafts, you know, band instruments, all these things then that's shameful. So that's just not the reality or that is not how it should be. That is not how it should be.
Speaker 1:That is a confusing messaging. It makes no sense. I would love for any conservative, fundamentalist, christian man to explain that to me because, again, I've lived this life, this Southern male life, and so I know that that happens across the board. I see it all the time on my news feed, even to today, and it makes zero sense. So there needs to be an acceptance on the other side that a boy may not be a typical boy, A man may not be a typical man. That does not mean that they're not a boy. That does not mean that they're not a man. They don't have to be gay just because they don't fit your stereotype. They that does not mean that they're not a man. They don't have to be gay just because they don't fit your stereotype. They can still be heterosexual, they can still be straight male. So or they cannot be or they can be gay. It doesn't accept that. Hopefully we can move beyond this. Only time will tell.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much. I appreciate you listening in. I just want to give you a point of action here. So if you'll go to godlesspastorbuzzsproutcom again that's godlesspastorbuzzsproutcom you can support the show there. If you listen to us on Apple Podcast, you should also see a support the show link there. You also can send us a text on that description on Apple Podcasts as well. You'll see that. Also, if you go to the Buzzsprout site, where you can send us a message which we can share on the show, you can even send a recording on that as well, which we can share on the show.
Speaker 1:So if you have any questions or anything that you'd like answered on the show, or if you'd like a topic to be discussed about, let me know and I look forward to talking about it with you. I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend and I hope that you all are able to move forward in your faith, in your walk and go in whichever direction you see fit for you and what brings you peace and happiness and harmony. Take care. Well, you've been listening to Godless Pastor Podcast with your host, billy Crocker. Please go and subscribe to us today and listen to our previous podcast and make sure that you're staying up to date on future ones. Thank you so much for listening. Again, you've been listening to the Godless Pastor Podcast with Billy Crocker.
